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Post by Carlos on Aug 7, 2010 20:22:46 GMT -6
I've noticed that people hate it when other people speak in a different language.
Back when me and Ed were running our own 25 man raiding guild. We had a group of Brazilian players. They all spoke Portuguese and did so from time to time in the guild chat, even on ventrilo.
Well we started getting complaints about it. People didn't think it was right that they should speak that over the Guild chat. And one of our two other officers suggested a separate chat for them. I said hell no. That bitch did it anyway. Technically it didn't hurt anyone. But that really fking pissed me off. These were our friends and a part of our corp team. Why were we allowing these people to alienate them?!
Either way. They stopped speaking over guild chat. Further dividing our guild.
Today I saw another video made by Swifty. He's a great Warrior. And gives tips and does other videos. He's sponsored by Razor. So it's no surprise he's looking for people to translate his vids to another language. However the comments are rife with negative comments.
Stupid things like. "I don't want to watch the same video in another language." As if to say they have to?
Others claiming it's a waste of time. And others saying they should all down rank his non-English vids.
Tell me your opinion on this.
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Post by Akira Takamedo on Aug 7, 2010 21:14:24 GMT -6
First off, I can understand why people would be annoyed if one or a group of people were speaking a language that they couldn't understand. People might think they're being talked about negatively, or whatnot. So, in that aspect, they have a bit of a valid point.
However, this country has a bit of a problem with this sort of stuff. There are just too many that believe English is the best language ever, and every other language is just insignificant. Anime is a perfect example for this, there are plenty of people who just flat-out refuse to watch it in Japanese because English is the only language that should ever exist.
What bugs the shit out of me are mispronunciations. Not ones out of ignorance, there's never anything wrong with those, but ones that are wrong and persist to be wrong despite being told otherwise. The pronunciation of Naruto is a perfect example - the correct pronunciation places emphasis on the 'Nar', but instead, there's an often-used incorrect one that places emphasis on the 'ru'. They stick by their mispronunciations though, because 'it's the English way to say it', even though that's...not true, and...even the dub gets it right...
All in all, yeah, that kind of attitude really bothers me.
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Post by Carlos on Aug 7, 2010 21:20:02 GMT -6
I prefer English to Japanese in Anime. Simply for the comfort. It's just more comfortable to hear it and not have to read. Especially if I'm distracted by something else.
However I've seen the exact opposite. I've seen English speaking fans who flat out refuse to watch the dub because they feel the Japanese version is better. NOT that they speak Japanese. I can't speak for them. But sometimes it smacks of elitism.
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Post by Akira Takamedo on Aug 7, 2010 21:57:02 GMT -6
Which can also get on my nerves, because there are some really good dubs out there. Anything done by the Ocean Group's A-list set of actors is a dub I'll immediately want to see. Brad Swaile, David Kaye, Scott McNeil, Brian Drummond, Lisa Ann Beley, the Dobson brothers, the list goes on - these are good voice actors, in my opinion.
When I watch a show, I usually do so in Japanese. However, I love Ocean dubs, and FUNimation's dubs (except for DBZ) are pretty good as well. Steven Jay Blum is probably my all-time favorite dub voice actor. I sometimes pop in the dub for the 0079 movies even though it absolutely sucks just for Steven Jay Blum as Char, even though the script he was given wasn't particularly good, so it's kind of a waste of his voice. Still, his voice suits Char really well.
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Hectator
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Never forget. Your NT hero threw a cripple off a mountain.
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Post by Hectator on Aug 10, 2010 13:51:19 GMT -6
All I can say is... if the first place your mind goes to is Naruto for any discussion other than possibly "sexiest kunoichi in anime" (where IMO no discussion would be complete without mentioning Kurenei somewhere in there) you just plain fail at making whatever point you were trying to make. I mean nobody but Narutards take arguments based on that series seriously. Also, since we all like Gundam here and people are nitpicking about pronunciation; its pronounced "Jim" not "Gee-Em" :3
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Post by Evan on Aug 10, 2010 15:15:02 GMT -6
I can understand why people wouldn't like when members of the same clan spoke in a different language in the channel. The English-speakers could easily feel alienated, and by having them around it could both be annoying (since they can't understand what they're saying) and potentially confusing. In that way, I think having them speaking another language in the same place would cause even more division amongst members than having them speak it somewhere else. They were already dividing themselves from the others by choosing to speak in a language that no one else could understand.
Can't say much about the people "voting down" videos just because it was translated into another language, though. That's just a bit of idiocy, in my opinion.
I don't like watching subtitled anime, if I have the option, because I hate having to read what is going on when I should be focusing on the events unfolding in the animation itself. It's very distracting and makes it hard for me to even look away for a second without missing something that's probably important.
edit: I think that Americans should learn other languages for the sake of education, but they shouldn't be forced to learn another language (for example: Spanish) just to coddle a minority that sometimes refuses to learn the language of the majority. If I moved to Germany, I'd be expected to learn German. If I moved to Japan, China, Russia, etc. I don't see why it shouldn't be the same here.
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Hectator
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Never forget. Your NT hero threw a cripple off a mountain.
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Post by Hectator on Aug 10, 2010 17:01:00 GMT -6
Is it wrong of me to say that I sometimes prefer to watch a certain type of anime in Japanese. Not saying what kind though. >.>;;
..... Obviously I mean Shounen & Shoujo stuff, as even with an English dub I'd be too confused as to WTF exactly is going on/ how retarded the basic setting concepts of the story are. That and fridge logic would keep kicking in every five seconds (i.e. "How the hell did Picolo blow up the moon and not cause worldwide devastation by screwing with the natural balance of our planet's ecosystem?")
Yes, overmuscled men flying by blasting concentrated chi out their asses and magic girls that all seem to live within a 100 mile radius of one another (they're all in Tokyo) yet never meet fill Hector's brain full of fuck x___x;;
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Post by Carlos on Aug 11, 2010 1:29:42 GMT -6
We can have a community within a community. They felt more comfortable speaking in their native language. Because some of them weren't as good at English as others. But because of this resentment over speaking another language, they need to end up segregated from the rest? If they are part of your team or your friends. It shouldn't matter, some things, they transcend barriers.
Loki, I really don't think that the people I'm talking about, were trying to alienate anyone. They were just having a good time. And from what I saw. People were just getting petty about them having fun. Not to say that people speaking another language wouldn't talk behind your back. But that's applicable to anyone, as anyone can simply walk away and talk behind your back.
As for the idea that they should be offended. I don't think offended is the right word. A different language automatically being offensive, that just sounds wrong.
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Post by Evan on Aug 11, 2010 8:19:52 GMT -6
To me, if the majority of the people speak English, it's almost rude of them to speak something else. It'd be like if two players on here came and started roleplaying out battles in a language no one else understood. Loki, or myself, or whoever's RPG it was, would have no idea what's going on and the other players would feel like they have no part in anything going on regarding those members since they have no idea what they're saying.
I still think you don't understand how much people choosing to speak another language were segregating themselves already.
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Post by Carlos on Aug 11, 2010 10:45:47 GMT -6
For some of them it wasn't much of a choice. It was a necessity. However, while the majority of the guild did speak English, when there wasn't a raid. I'd say the number of Brazilians to other players on most of the time was about equal. Often they were the few people on besides myself and Ed.
Coming on to a text based RP where everyone speaks another language is considerably different though. Communication is key for an RP. Where as being part of a Guild in a game is different. They never spoke another language during raids. It's only on the off time in guild chat when there was simply nothing else to do.
The people who truly segregated themselves were the people that weren't on or never said anything. Who I found to be a bigger majority. 25 man raiding guild. About 10 people would be on in between raids. Half of those would be Brazilian. When they stopped speaking in Guild chat. The channel was pretty damn quiet. The occasional comment between players. I and my brother, along with a few others, made the effort to better get to know our more foreign players. And we did feel part of the group, even when they were speaking another language. Yet the people who cared not to try were the people complaining the loudest.
Our guild was good. People remembered us and asked if we were coming back. A lot of that had to do with good leadership on Ed's part and good players at the core of the group. Their speaking of another language did not hurt us. And the only people it did bother. Were a small minority. The rest weren't on enough to care. It's too bad that bubble-headed idiot didn't listen to me.
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Post by Edward on Aug 11, 2010 11:29:38 GMT -6
I haven't read through all the posts, but pretty much I never saw a problem with them talking another language and I didn't really have a problem not understanding them (Since I'm the only one that can't speak Spanish in my family which is at least similar to Portuguese). After they were asked to not talk in guild chat anymore in another language, that caused more segregation to me. They eventually got their own vent to hang out in where they could speak more freely. =(
I dunno, they were more important (and better players) in the guild then the few people that complained about it. I can understand why they would complain, but since it didn't effect the core gameplay for us, I thought it was silly to ask them to stop. Just in this particular case, I felt it was really pointless for us to limit them. In other cases it might be different though. Just depends on the situation.
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Vorbote
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Post by Vorbote on Aug 14, 2010 3:36:03 GMT -6
My input on this is:
If you speak a language, aside from English (in America or an American server), and choose to speak it in a public or semi-public situation, you just alienated yourself, and are in fact being a dick wad. You deserve every bit of alienation you receive. Now, say, you reserve it for people you know speak the same language in private messages, text messages, what have you, it's totally your business, and in fact, if someone tries to alienate you for that, THEY are the dick wad.
Speaking a native tongue in your own home, or a place that is reserved for that, or hell, even alone on a beach, or in a park, is absolutely fine, and hell, I encourage it. Just because you live here, doesn't mean you sacrifice your culture. (Unless it's goat sacrifice, or donkey fucking. Leave that shit elsewhere.) But at the same time, don't alienate other people. If you're learning English, what better way to learn than to apply it in actual conversation with other Americans or English speakers?
I my self have learned some Spanish, a bit of French, and German. Even Latin, and a tiny bit of Russian. And Italian. Put I don't speak them in public unless the people I am speaking to know the language, or are learning, like I am.
As for people being pissy because someone wants to help other people who don't understand English, they can suck a cock. I may not agree with the dude wanting to share, but he has every right to do it.
There be my two cents.
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Post by Kailan on Aug 14, 2010 5:51:18 GMT -6
My input on this is: If you speak a language, aside from English (in America or an American server), and choose to speak it in a public or semi-public situation, you just alienated yourself, and are in fact being a dick wad. You deserve every bit of alienation you receive. Now, say, you reserve it for people you know speak the same language in private messages, text messages, what have you, it's totally your business, and in fact, if someone tries to alienate you for that, THEY are the dick wad. Speaking a native tongue in your own home, or a place that is reserved for that, or hell, even alone on a beach, or in a park, is absolutely fine, and hell, I encourage it. Just because you live here, doesn't mean you sacrifice your culture. (Unless it's goat sacrifice, or donkey fucking. Leave that shit elsewhere.) But at the same time, don't alienate other people. If you're learning English, what better way to learn than to apply it in actual conversation with other Americans or English speakers? I my self have learned some Spanish, a bit of French, and German. Even Latin, and a tiny bit of Russian. And Italian. Put I don't speak them in public unless the people I am speaking to know the language, or are learning, like I am. As for people being pissy because someone wants to help other people who don't understand English, they can suck a cock. I may not agree with the dude wanting to share, but he has every right to do it. There be my two cents. In your scenario of dickwaddery, do the people speaking the foreign language speak english? Or are they perhaps speaking the foreign language because that's all they know? If I any my four friends are in a bar in Japan, and two of them speak only English, and the other two are bilingual, we will of course speak English so that everyone can be understood. Are we being dickwads? If a foreigner comes up to me in Japan and asks me for directions to the bank in English, should I consider him a dickwad for not speaking to me in my own language? If I go to a movie theater, and the movie is in a foreign language, and there are subtitles shown at the bottom of the screen, is the movie being a dickwad to me? The next time that I see two foreigners speaking English in a train when I'm on my way to work, perhaps I should tell them to shut up and speak Japanese, because damnit they're in Japan and don't they know that's the language that we speak here? What a couple of dickwads. You say that it's alright for people to speak in a foreign language or text in a foreign language if no one's around. Do you really think that's sufficient for people to retain a sense of their own culture? Do you think people will still feel their Mexican heritage of they have to sneak around whenever they speak for fear than an American might hear them? Do you think a Spanish speaking person is a dickwad if they're texting a friend in Spanish, and they drop their phone, and an American picks it up and happens to glance at the text and sees that it's in Spanish? You say that foreigners shouldn't alienate other people. But consider the situation in reverse. Lets consider the following situation. An American college student is in Korea for foreign exchange. She settles in and heads to her first day of class. What an exciting adventure! On the subway though, she loses her ticket. She is studying Korean and is quickly learning, but she doesn't yet know enough to deal with the situation adequately in Korean, so when she gets to the exit gate, she is forced to try to explain in English what has happened. The gate attendant scowls at her and calls her a dickwad. She ends up having to pay the fare over again and quickly leaves, trying to avoid eye contact with the multitude of Koreans who overheard her speaking English and are glaring at her, venom in their eyes. She reaches the classroom, and gets out her books, frazzled by the experience but still looking forward to her new life in Korea. The Korean student next to her smiles and introduces himself. She tries to respond, but can't remember the Korean word for "name". She remembers the experience she just had with the ticket attendant and decides not to answer the other student, afraid that he might have a similar reaction. She shakes her head and returns to getting out her books. This is becoming a rant, so I'm going to stop now. But a little bit of trivia before I go: Did you know that America has no official language? Did you know that any official government must, by law, be available in any language for anyone to read? Take off your horse-blinders and you might realize that by 2050, 30% of the population of the United States will be Hispanic and 9% will be Asian. America isn't a melting pot, where everything dissolves and comes out the same; It's a stew, where each new ingredient is distinct and adds to the whole. Stop trying to tell the potatoes to shape up and act more like carrots.
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Post by Carlos on Aug 14, 2010 11:18:36 GMT -6
Nice. I like your stew analogy. I hear the melting pot one a lot. There are instances where if someone can speak English, they should, in particular where they need to work together with someone. I see it occasionally in League of legends. But those people at times simply don't speak English. The reason for it being Riot hasn't provided South American servers. There's only US and EU. However, often when I have seen someone speak a foreign language, I see people become incredibly hostile. These morons begin insulting the other player throughout the entire match. And yes, they ARE morons, because if they can't speak English, they can't understand you! And more importantly that's just a douche thing to do. Then again, people are abusive bastards over the internet, especially in competitive games.
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Post by Kailan on Aug 14, 2010 11:30:09 GMT -6
I certainly agree with that. Even in real life there are certain jobs that have a requisite level of English knowledge. I'm sure everyone gets frustrated when they have to repeat their order at the drive through 5 times because the person on the other end can barely understand English (and then the order still comes out wrong). And the reverse is certainly true, a police officer pulling over a driver for running a red light, and discovering that the driver doesn't speak any english and couldn't read the signs. I wish I played more online games so I could contribute to that aspect of the discussion, but unfortunately I don't Seems to me an excercise in futility though, pitting a bunch of people against each other where no one speaks the same language... @.@
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